WHO'S WHO?

Chris Sugden corners Sid Kipper - on two wheels

In 1999 Folk On Tap, folk magazine of the southern counties, commissioned me to conduct an interview with Sid.  It was a somewhat prickly encounter, with Sid lifting up the carpet and finding one or two things I had previously swept there.

Sid Kipper and I go back a long way.  You might even say I made him what he is today.  Because before I came along he was totally unknown; just another Norfolk 'boy' singing the occasional song in a remote country pub - a pub so remote that I'm the only one that can find it.  Then I discovered him and he's become a highly successful performer, broadcaster and recording artist - whose copyrights I happen to own.

Some years ago I moved from Norfolk to Yorkshire for my health (Sid was getting on my nerves).  Now we conduct our business by post - although there was some alarm when it was rumoured that the second post might be stopped in Sid's village, as they only get the second post.  But since I'm the only one who knows the way to the Old Goat Inn the editor of Folk on Tap asked me to go back there to interview Folk's brightest megostar.

What follows is the result of our conversation.

Chris        Sid, I've always thought of your approach as being essentially a complex mix of naive simplicity and native artlessness.  How do you react to that?

Sid           Well, with naive thingy and native whatever it was you said, I suppose.  Mind you, my Raquel seem happy enough with my approaches, so I don't see what it's got to do with you.

Chris        There is a purpose to these questions.  In order to get an understanding of your enigmatic charisma for the readers I'm trying to get inside your head.

Sid           Look, just 'cos you're out of your own head there's no reason to try and get inside of mine.

Chris        Yes, but you're out of my head too, aren't you?

Sid           I don't know what you mean by that!  I'm a self made man, I am.  I mean, I had a bit of help with some of the tricky bits I suppose, but otherwise I'm completely DIM - that's 'done it myself'.  There's no more to me than meets the eye.

Chris        Now that's not strictly true, is it?  I put it to you that without me you simply wouldn't exist.

Sid           Alright then, put it to me.  But I'll just put it back again.  I admit you did give us a hand getting started, helping me with the peculiar ways of the folk scene.  All that stuff about raffles, and the candles on the tables when there's perfectly good electric light, and the compulsory encore and all that.  But it was me what went out and done the business, weren't it?  Where was you then?  It was me what sung the songs and told the stories and fought off the groupies even though I'm not in a group.  Do you have to fight off groupies?

Chris        Never mind that just now.  Anyway - well, there are more things in life than that.

Sid           Thought as much.  What I'm saying is it's me what people see up on the stage, not you.  I mean, when it come up to it, who are you anyhow?  For all anyone know you might be a fragment of someone's imagination.  Let's face it, for all anyone care I might have made you up!

Chris        I think we'll move on.  Now, many people find it strange that you keep coming up with a procession of previously unknown traditional songs.  How can that be?

Sid           Well, I remember them, see.  Mind you, that's not easy, because some of them have been forgot for a hundred years or more, so they take a bit of remembering I can tell you.  But folk singing is all in the blood, and so are the songs.  It's just a matter of getting them out of the blood again.  So what I usually do is come in the pub here and I have a few pints and mind everyone else's business.  Sooner or later someone punches me on the nose and out it all comes.  It's amazing what you can remember with fourteen pints of Old Nasty and a punch on the nose.

Chris        So the songs don't arrive in an envelope from Yorkshire, as has been rumoured?

Sid           You want to watch what you're saying, Sugden.  People might be listening.  My reputation depend on singing proper old traditional songs what have been passed down in my family from hand to mouth over the generations.  You don't want to start spreading rumours that I'm not the real old tradition.  Anyhow, you'd only be cutting off your nose to spite your fees.

Chris        I've spoken to a few fans who have made the pilgrimage to Trunch, and they complain that they can't find any sign of you, or the Old Goat Inn, or Mrs Dace's Corner Shop, or any of the things you talk about.  Are your fans just stupid?

Sid           Well I'm not, so I aren't going to answer that one.  You see, people round my parts don't want a lot of strangers coming and nosing their pokes into everything.  We like to keep our privates to ourselves, thank you very much.  Except on a Saturday night, of course.  And then only if you're lucky.

Chris        Now, although you've become a huge solo star you still work with a partner sometimes.  How did you choose him?

Sid           My 'Partner In Crime'?  Well, it was a matter of going through who was available, really.  So by a progress of illumination that come down to Mister Dave Burland from Barnsley.

Chris        So, let's get this clear.  You elected to work with a high-class male singer based in Yorkshire?

Sid           If you want to put it that way.

Chris        But wasn't there someone rather closer to home who fitted that description?

Sid           Well, if you're going to have someone from Yorkshire you can't get much closer to my home than Barnsley.  Except Doncaster maybe.

Chris        I was thinking of myself, actually.

Sid           Nothing new in that, is there?

Chris        I mean that I was available - a high-class male singer based in Yorkshire.

Sid           What?  You?  You must be joking!  You reckon you and me could appear on the same stage together?  You must be losing your marbles.

Chris        I assure you, I've never met Lord Elgin.

Sid           Look, Mister Burland's famous.  Nobody's ever heard of you.  What have you ever done?

Chris        Well, I've written some decent songs, and I'm a pretty good singer.  I write articles.  And I'm fairly big in Keighley.

Sid           Well I don't need songs or artics, do I?  But, see, on stage I have to appear with the right sort of people - people who've got talent and who are famous and who audiences will respect.

Chris        So what's the difference between someone like me, say, and someone like yourself?

Sid           I reckon I've just answered that.

Chris        Look Sid, I have to say that it's very difficult for me to manage your affairs without having your respect.

Sid           Suits me.  I reckon I can manage my own affairs anyhow.  And the business too.  In fact you're fired.

Chris        Oh, I don't think you can just fire me like that Sid.

Sid           Why not?  You're always telling me what to do, when to do it, and who to do it to.  Well, now I'm just telling you where to go.

Chris        But I own you, Sid.  You're copyright Chris Sugden.

Sid           Well - I could just give up the folk singing.  Then where would you be?

Chris        Then where would you be?  Let's face it - none of us really exist unless other people believe we do.  If people didn't believe in the Old Goat Inn you'd have nowhere to drink!

Sid           Are you sure?  Well, if you put it like that ........

Chris        I do.  So let's not be hasty.  We'll carry on as usual, shall we, with our old 15% arrangement?

Sid           Oh alright then.  I don't seem to have no choice, do I?  Though I still reckon I ought to get more than 15%!